Talk:Zipota

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[edit] Merge

I don't object to the merge, with a redirect left here. I do think it should have its own section at Savate, though (noting the concerns about historical accuracy). JJL (talk) 00:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm from the Basque Country and this martial art wasn't developed here. It seems that it was developed in a Texan dojo. 130.206.100.134 (talk) 11:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Where does the expression "montar un zipote" come from then? All the way from Texas and specifically to Euskadi? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.215.236.81 (talk) 11:08, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Well it's always possible that it's just a coincidence that the two words look similar or - not an unknown technique either - someone used a Basque word because he liked the sound of it. Just think of modern car names. I've checked all my sources on Basque (including Azkue and Lhande's old dictionaries) and found nothing that relates the word zipote/zipota to a martial art. I've also done a lot of web searches of zipote with other Basque words that would commonly appear within the context (such as kirol (sport), herri (country) etc) and found nothing that you'd call reliable. Which is really odd because the EJ is quite keen on promoting all these sports... personally I tend towards accepting the name is zipote/zipota which may be related to the Basque word but that the sport was definitely developed outside EH. Akerbeltz (talk) 17:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Zipote is indeed a loanword from spanish, cipote, which among other things means clumsy man, fat man or pennis (http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltGUIBusUsual?TIPO_HTML=2&TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=cipote) 130.206.100.134 (talk) 14:09, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I've reworded the whole article to reflect the fact that it's a style with a love for Basque words but not Basque in origin. As they exist as registered clubs, it must be accepted that it exists as such and therefore isn't a hoax, it's just not indigenous. A bit like giving a foreign name to a German car I guess ; ) Akerbeltz (talk) 11:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for what you've done with this article! I think you may strayed into WP:OR at some times, though, so I'm going to do a little reworking. JJL (talk) 14:03, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. Which bits do you consider OR? Looking words up in a dictionary does not count as OR AFAIK. Akerbeltz (talk) 14:27, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, "gaugake simply looks like a Basque word with no discernible meaning" for example; perhaps a linguistics expert could discern a meaning? Also "No Basque dictionary..." (emphasis added); have we checked all of them? The phrase "This sport is not attested..." seems a very strong negative to have to support, as opposed to saying that we have no evidence of it. That's the kind of thing I meant. JJL (talk) 01:27, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Hm well, I have a degree in linguistics actually and I'm fluent in Basque and I can't see or find any discernible meaning but we could change the wording to "gaugake looks like a Basque qord but appears to be opaque in meaning" to make it sound a little less harsh?

As far as checking them goes, I've got most Basque dictionaries in print and quite a few out of print and there's no trace of this word in connection with martial arts, so I think it it's justified but we could add "no B dictionary seems to ...", how's that? And as far as attestation goes, I've check not only the dictionaries but also any other reference I have at hand in print and online in Basque, Spanish, French or English (including Azkue's Euskalerrianren Yakintza, Deportes Vascos etc) and there's not a smidge of it. I'd actually leave that one in there like that, wording it so strongly might encourage others to try and find a reference and bring it up. Failing that, it remains unattested. It really appears to be, I'd love tha idea of a native basque martial art but can't find anything on it. What do you think? Akerbeltz (talk) 10:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it's great to have attention from an expert on this! Is it important to include "gaugake" though? I think the examples there more than make the point. Someone who comes to this article is either interested in martial arts or Basque culture, I'd wager. Since you have checked essentially every dictionary that claim seems to stick though!

LOL I wasn't fishing for a compliment but you asked ; )

I'd leave gaugake there, it *is* a term they use after all and leaving it there just might bring a response from someone either way - after all no one can claim to know all words of a language. It also fleshes out the article a bit more, looks less of a stub. I do think we should remove that rather random Spanish reference that 130.206.100.134 added (see comment below). Akerbeltz (talk) 14:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish etymology

130.206.100.134, you added the Spanish cipote - the word bears an obvious resemblance to zipote but how do you account for the meaning? None of the meanings to my mind make sense in relation to a martial art. Thanks! Akerbeltz (talk) 14:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


The youtube video is not indicative of the style nor is it primarily taught in Texas. I've a strong suspicion that whomever added those useless bits of info is the same one in the video whom I've argued with on forums about European martial arts. He is nothing more than a 16 year old boy who doesn't know the style. Please keep his edits out of this entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.215.240 (talk) 18:40, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Can you provide a reference showing that it's taught in Spain? JJL (talk) 19:04, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Hm, I'm definitely not 16 or on any martial arts forums : ) I'm neither trying to promote or downgrade this zipota thing either, JJL and I are simply trying to sort speculation from fact as much as we can. Fact is that there's not that much out there on zipota/zipote but all the (exlcuding forum posts) things I've managed to find on the web so far have pointed to the US, not Spain. If anything, one might construct a case for France due to the apparent relationship to savate. Akerbeltz (talk) 19:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cipote

Cipote is penis in spanish —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.103.98.10 (talk • contribs) 16:55, 19 May 2008

Yes, I know that but you'd have to come up with a really interesting reference/source for that fact to be relevant to this article ;) Akerbeltz (talk) 17:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Popular Culture

Ok, I'm totally ignorant of these games, and I'll have to take 24.75.85.118's word for these moves being inspired by zipota. Some reference would be good or at least explanantion of how we know that cause I can't find anything on the pages for those guys.

Also, we need a better reference for the movie, there's a number of them called The Quest. I suspect it's the one with Van Damme but not sure, never seen it. Akerbeltz (talk) 17:41, 21 May 2008 (UTC)