Talk:Zaporizhian Sich

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Contents

[edit] Скуфьи

A "skuf'i" is a hat worn by Orthodox Priests, derived from Greek, and nothing to do with a Sich. Also sík simply means "level" or "smooth" in Hungarian, it has no connection to land. Also, what is "Old Rus'"? Old East Slavic?

[edit] Quality of writing

Parts of this article sound as though they were translated from Ukrainian to English by a non-native English speaker. I have tried to clean them up a bit, but it still seems a bit disjointed. Please help. Lubap (talk) 09:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Russian history??

In what way is this a Russia history wikiproject. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Counterstrike69 (talkcontribs) 21:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

Why, to allow the Russians to censor Ukrainian history, so as to make Russia look good. Or so the many edits would suggest. Why else?Lubap (talk) 09:08, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] merging

Why not merge this article with "Zaporozhian Host" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Counterstrike69 (talkcontribs) 21:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

I think the Sich was actually a city, or otherwise a geographical area, why the host refers to a group of people (prot-nation, perhaps).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  22:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Passage deleting

I deleted the passage: "The lack of southern borders and enemies in the past years had a profound affect on the combat-ability of the Cossacks, who realised the Russian infantry was present only after the Sech was surrounded. The surprise effect put a devastating blow to the morale of the Cossacks preventing them from any resistance."

In 1774 Cossacks took an active part in Russo-Turkish War, so the "lack of enemies in the past years" seem to be not true. By testimonies of Ukrainian sources, Ukrainians were ready to fight, but their otaman Kalnyshevsky and local priest convinced them to surrender. [1] Ans-mo 13:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Erasing of alternative point of view

What is the reason for deleting this passage:

The abolishment of the Zaporizhian Sich remained a tragic event in the Ukrainian folklore and peoples memory, where frequently expressed negative attitude towards Empress Catherine and Moscovites (moskal), who ruined the stronghold of the Ukrainian dignity and independence.

What rule is violated? Ans-mo 12:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Again Russian political censorship for passages with clear sources

Here again are erased passages with clear Russian empire loving prejudice. The passage was two times erased by one user, which is close to vandalism.

The abolishment of the Zaporizhian Sich remained a tragic event in the Ukrainian folklore and peoples memory, where frequently expressed negative attitude towards Empress Catherine and Moscovites (moskal), who ruined the stronghold of the Ukrainian dignity and independence. Ukrainian historian A.Kaschenko [2] states, that "Ukrainian people, which for several centuries had a powerfull defender of its rights and reliable asylum , bitterly mourned the abolishment of Sich: - - "Not yet a light, not yet a light, too early for a sunrise, But Moscovite is already surrounding Zaporizhia...", "Moscovites did not sleep, but took all the reserves. Moscovites seniors robbed the Church. They took silver, they took gold, wax candles. Oh, there cried koshovyi with starshyna in Sich." (excerpts of peoples songs)

Please dont erase this passage from discussion page (as it was earlier).Ans-mo 06:11, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some new examples

Here is estimation on Zaporizhian Sich ruining by "Encyclopedia of Ukrainian Cossackdom":

By the Government order general Tekely ruined Zaporizhian Sich, in 1781 administrative (polk and sotnia) regime was abolished. Cossacks were made state peasants and serves, cossack starshyna was given right of nobility. These events are presented in Encyclopedia as yet another tragedy of the Ukrainian people. Second time in its history it lost its statehood and national elite.

All Zaporizhians were deprived of weapons. Part of starshyna, and all the highest of them, were repressed. Koshovy Otaman Kalnishevsky was exiled to Solovki monastery, military judge Pavel Golovaty - to Tobolski monastery, military record clerk - to Turuhanski monastery. All of them had not come back. [3]


Having not possibility of express this point in article itself because of one sided censorship I post this sourced opinion to discussion page. Please dont erase it. The problem is that the point of view on Ukrainian Cossakdom from Ukranian side almost not presented. Ans-mo 08:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Sich as a pirate republic

From the social and economic point of view, the Sich originated as a typical "pirate republic" of the 16th century. Its population was quite international. It included Ukrainians, Tatars, Poles, Lithuanians and Russians. The social structure was also complex — destitute gentry and boyars, merchants and peasants, outlaws of every sort, run-away slaves from Turkish galleys, etc. The remoteness of the place and rapids on the Dnepr river effectively guarded the place from invasions of revenge-seeking powers. The natural business of this motley crowd was robbery. The main target: rich settlements on the Black Sea shores of the Ottoman Empire.

SAY WHAT??? I don't know who wrote this, but first of all that's just an opinion, and second of IT IS A GROUNDLESS OPINION. Does the fact that the Sich gave a sanctuary to political refugees (enemies of its enemies) right away classifies it as a rogue state? And what about stating that the Sich didn't have any order or something like that? Whoever said that needs to reread the history. The river's name is not Dnepr, but rather Dnipro, "grandpa" Dnipro. Dnepr is the Russian version of the name (why? - an old colonization trick).

The remoteness of the place and rapids on the Dnepr river effectively guarded 
the place from invasions of revenge-seeking powers.

Interesting! What about the Cossacks military skills to defend their Heartland -- Khortytsia? And I'm just speechless of the last couple of sentenses -- that was written with direct disrespect.

THIS NEEDS TO BE TRASHED!!! Aleksandr Grigoryev 02:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whatta HELL???

All I see is Russified version of history. This article seems as was created to justify the destruction of Zaporizhia. Aleksandr Grigoryev 03:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)