Talk:Zombies in popular culture

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Reviewed version: June 2, 2007

Contents

[edit] Article name

The name of this article is a bit confusing. If it's only literature and fiction, why include television and film, etc? Should this be renamed? Or maybe further split into two articles? Midnightdreary 15:35, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

All of the TV shows and movies listed are fictional. If there's any documentaries in film or television, they should go in the main Zombie article. Perhaps, however, the article should be renamed to simply "Zombies in fiction." Travisl 15:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Ha! I guess I see fiction and just assume "literature." Still, it's a long article... rather than renaming, I'd recommend creating a new article for Zombies in television and film or something along those lines. Midnightdreary 01:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
FWIW, List of zombie films already exists, and probably duplicates a lot of what's already here. Perhaps someone with time to do so can merge the Film and TV parts of this article and List of zombie films into a new Zombies in television and film? Travisl 18:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
This article does not need to be split further. I do not quite understand why this was split from the main article in the first place. The comment on the discussion page for Zombie said "Does anyone else think that the lists of examples of zombies in literature, film, music etc. etc. could be split into another article or even just cut back to make this article more informative and less pop-culture orientated?". Fair enough, but aren't Zombies a pop culture phenomenon? I recognize that Zombies originate from Voodoo. Still, it seems very strange to separate the subject of Zombies from Zombies on film. What would Zombies be without film? Probably a footnote in the history of Haiti, and perhaps something we had never heard of. I do feel that the article was bloated and in need of editing before this split took place, but I think moving Zombies on Film to a separate page hurts the article.
I've moved this page from "Zombie in fiction and literature" to "zombies in popular culture". I think maybe "zombies in film" should be moved to it's own article, that section is pretty big.Tomgreeny 19:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm OK with this, until such time as a non-fictional zombie becomes important to popular culture. *grin* Thanks for making the change. Travisl 19:59, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chronology / Evolution of Zombies

I tried to create a chronological basis for the zombie's evolution into the pop-culture form it currently takes. I put the evolution into its own section, ending at Night of the Living Dead where it basically solidified into the 'modern zombie'. Due to the interrelation between literary and film zombies at the time, I decided not to split up the discussion of zombies pre-1968. It's not perfect but I think this a good start for a history of zombies as an archetype. I tried to limit my own references to ones that might have actually informed the creation of the concept; I don't know what to do about the later, non-chronological entries in other sections that turn the article into an unconnected mess of zombie references. I'm sure a lot of them could be pared down, given that the modern zombie is a hugely common archetype by now. --Subcreature 00:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Nice work! Keep it up! Travisl 05:18, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! Think I'm about done with this one. All that's left is cleaning up the end-section detritus. Maybe "List of zombie (insert media here)" pages would be better for all those wanting to catalogue their favourite non-essential zombie appearances, though I think they'd only get deleted in due time like other such pages. Subcreature 21:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music section

I'm just curious as to why the Zombies in music section was reduced to two lines. There is hardly any real information now. ONEder Boy 23:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I did that for the same reason I pared the other sections down; too much minutiae for such a broad subject. I took my cue from the Vampire and Vampire fiction articles which concentrate more on the history and overview of the concept than tons of tiny details about bands that talk about vampires or something. The vampire article doesn't even have a music section. I also moved the horror punk zombie thing into the horror punk article, so that information is still available. If you want to add a "list of songs about zombies" article and link it, you could do that, but those kinds of articles don't always last long. Subcreature 06:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just a thought

I thought that in 28 Days Later, the infected were not actual zombies. I mean, they were infected with the Rage virus but they were not actually dead. And it's the same kinda thing in Cell. I really don't mean to be dufficult or anything I just wanna clear it up for my own ignorance. ONEder Boy 23:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's true they're not zombies in the classic sense, though... critics and the IMDB seem to agree that the 28 Days series are zombie-inspired enough to fit into the genre. When looking up Cell I heard them literary critics saying the same. It's the zombielike behaviour of the victims and the overall themes of zombie apocalypse that (I believe) put them within the genre, even though the infected aren't dead. "Not-dead" zombies have nearly all the same typical traits as dead ones, at least from what I've seen. Subcreature 02:05, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I was just trying to make sure. ONEder Boy 19:58, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

I've noticed that instead of references, you have external links in the primary article. Please convert them into proper reference style, or I believe you may be failed instantly for a GA. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 05:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

OK I'm working on that now Tomgreeny 12:42, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Done Tomgreeny 14:17, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Wow, Tomgreeny, good stuff. Thanks very much. Subcreature 19:45, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lead Image

ONEder Boy moved the previous lead image of the zombie survival guide to the relevant section (personally I thought it made a good lead image). So I've moved the image from the zombie article here (should be generic enough not to be moved to a section). Now I'm wondering if we should have a different lead image for zombie. Comments? Tomgreeny 12:10, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

All apologies on my end for moving the picture, (no sarcasm intended) but I just felt that it was more appropriate in the print and literature section. You can always move it back if need be.ONEder Boy 21:52, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
No problem. I think if I did put it back then after a while someone else would move it again. Tomgreeny 23:36, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA fail

  • (2c) I'm concerned that much of this article is original research. The history of zombies laid out here seems to be a synthesis generated by the editors - is that correct? If so, it cannot be presented here (however persuasive it might be). Wikipedia can only present material that has been previously published; it cannot even synthesize material already published as that is also original research.
  • Sentences such as: One can readily imagine that this fact might have influenced later ideas of zombies as actual revived corpses certainly look like original research.
  • (2b) The sources used here do not fill one with confidence. There is a lot written on these topics by academics and the editors are relying on commercial sites and self-published blogs of dubious quality to support their statements. Please carefully read WP:RS and WP:ATT. Also, many of the statements "likely to be challenged" are not sourced here. I have added some fact tags at the beginning of the article, but I stopped when I saw how many would have to be added. Please note that whole sections lack any citation whatsoever.
  • (1a) Writing needs to be improved. There are a lot of convoluted, redundant sentences:
  • Ex:The concept of the living dead, with regard to the flesh-hungry intent that characterizes the 'modern zombie', dates back to mythology and folklore from prehistory.
  • Ex:From the following examples, it can be defined as having evolved from a mixture of ancient undead lore, tropes of Gothic fiction, a curiously Western interpretation of Voodoo and, most recently, a science fiction rationale.
  • (1b) The lead should be a summary of the article capable of standing on its own per WP:LEAD.
  • (3) I know that Romero is important, but considering the depth of the other sections in this article, his section seems to be getting undue weight.
  • (6) The caption for the top right image doesn't identify the move and not all of the images have fair use claims. On a more minor note, why are all of the images on the right-hand side of the page? It is unaesthetic. Awadewit Talk 15:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback Tomgreeny 15:15, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. This article is still undone and it was way too raw to submit to GA scrutiny. I agree with all the criticisms except the one about Romero, though -- his influence can't be overstated. Subcreature 17:30, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Then expand the other sections to create balance. Since his movies receive so much coverage and almost every other work receives a couple of sentences at most, it is a problem. Awadewit Talk 18:05, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Zombiesurvivalguide.jpg

Image:Zombiesurvivalguide.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 11:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Citation Needed" tag for Draugr

I am considering removing the "Citation Needed" tag for the term Draugr. While I've read the Citing_sources entry, I am still puzzled as to why it is applied to this statement. What, exactly, is the need for a citation in this case that is not fulfilled by the wiki entry on Draugr itself?

[edit] redlink removed

I removed the following:

See also: List of books and comics featuring zombies

Since the link didn't go anywhere. If I'm wrong and there's an actual article out there on that subject, go ahead and replace the link.

[edit] Diary of the Dead

"Romero has recently returned to the beginning of the series with the film Diary of the Dead. Set to be released in early 2008, the film will take place on the same night as the original Night of the Living Dead." -- Main Article

Is there a source for this statement? Having seen "Diary" through the Toronto International Film Festival I can vouch for the fact that while the film goes back to the beginning of a Zombie outbreak there is nothing to suggest that its intended to be the same as the one in Night of the Living Dead. While the specific date of Night may be somewhat ambiguous, Diary clearly takes place in a modern setting not only featuring more modern technology but making references to the internet and sources like YouTube.com as their only means of discovering what is happening elsewhere. Its clearly a more modern setting, not the late 1960s. 99.225.201.49 (talk) 05:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:THRILLERghouls.jpg

Image:THRILLERghouls.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:31, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Added rationale. Travisl (talk) 16:29, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Harry Potter

Feeling a bit lazy, but I thought that the Inferi from Harry Potter should be added to the list. Technically, they fit in the popular culture view of zombies. AllStarZ (talk) 19:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

"Other zombie appearances have been catalogued in dozens of novels... [T]he zombie archetype has spread so far and wide that it is impossible to provide a definitive list of resources." I think that already covers it. Travisl (talk) 16:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)