Talk:Zheng He/Archive 2
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Eunuch
Why no mention in the article of when and why Zheng He became a eunuch?Benami 11:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- D'oh! Never mind... Benami 23:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Zheng He as an ambassador?
The Chinese wikipedia states that he led 100,000 man to Japan at 1404, and signed the Kango trade treaty with Ashikaga Yoshimitsu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyfiler (talk • contribs) 18:38, 17 January 2006
New subsection: Zheng He map
I created a new subsection for this material as it takes up about half the total existing section ("Cultural echoes"). If people decide to keep it, they might like to rename it - I doubt that this is really known as the Zheng He map. PiCo
郑和下西洋被明帝国看作一次可悲的失败
明朝的成祖, 和元朝的世祖, 清朝的圣祖有一个十分相似的地方: 承接了上几代建立大帝国的基础, 并雄心勃勃地向化外, 尤其是向西, 制订了扩张计划.
与北方大陆马上民族建立的元, 清两祖不同, 拥有强大航海力量的明成祖的西洋扩张计划, 完全没有达到预期目标.
穆斯林宦官郑和前后十几年的使命, 是以追捕废建文帝为借口, 对铁木尔蒙古帝国进行包抄为实的外交攻略.
郑和的外交访问, 除了在天方和伊朗几次短暂停留, 并没有接近铁木尔帝国的势力范围, 也并没有建立任何实际的地缘政治态势能与该帝国抗衡. 也就是说, 郑和的使命失去了目的性, 盲目地背负着毫无价值的"天朝威仪", 在"山海经"般的海域里进入了一种超现实的状态, 一种存在主义的悲哀.
几十年后, 哥伦布与达加马也在"辛巴达游记"一般的超现实海域中闯荡, 也盲目地背负着脱离现实的唐吉诃德精神和宗教狂热, 但他们的结局和郑和完全两样. 虽然达氏死如亡命之徒, 哥氏在半疯狂状态中死去, 虽然郑和能以帝国大员的身份在印度"死在岗位上", 前两位所带来的硕果是后者不可比拟的. 更重要的是, 两位欧洲船长在坚定的信念中超生, 而郑和只留下无限的遗憾.
因为欧洲的探险家和中国的宦官有着根本的不同: 前者是基督教君主授予全权的骑士, 航海的事业是他们个人渔利的一种"企业"; 又是带着狂热信念, 为信仰征服世界的基督徒. 命运就掌握在他们的手里. 他们面对的是乐观的海图. 即使是一张空白而漫无目的的海图, 他们都可以画出乐观的新世界: "西印度", "黄金国", "新西班牙"... 原始的处女地, 他们的十字架一碰就可以成为基督的新圣土... 强大的印第安帝国也可以顷刻被初生之犊打垮. 昨日的流氓痞子, 明天可以成为新土地的基督教骑士和领主. 君主的"授权"只是一个许可证, 他们真正的权力基础和资本, 是他们自己的事业, 是这些海上驰骋的城堡.
郑和, 相比之下, 是一个被去势的男人. 一个为异教皇帝奴役的穆斯林. 他的"命根"永远被掌握在紫禁城不可捉摸的政治游戏手中. 他的宗教信仰是敌国铁木尔的信仰, 他的祖籍就在铁木尔朝的布哈拉. 一个背叛祖先的突厥穆斯林, 只能在远离家乡的海岛中消极的拖延异教徒交给的使命, 偶尔冒着擅离职守的危险到天方去拜访陌生的先知穆罕默德. 他的权力基础, 完全就是那个手里握着他命根子的皇帝. 这人一去, 宦官也要陷入无比的绝望. 那张象"山海经"的海图, 对郑和来说是悲观的. 这是他为了避免同时背叛祖宗和主子而找到的一片荒芜的避难所. 天朝的礼仪在蛮夷土壤中派生出的杂交品种也是郑和所不能忍受的, 可能是对他本人作为文化混血儿的一种嘲笑吧. 他带去一船船的无价珍宝, 换来的是天朝大国不能置信, 不能欣赏的怪诞物产. 他虽带着精良的武器装备, 在山野酋长的领地里也要诚惶诚恐, 忍受"汉(明)孰与我大"之类的傲慢态度. 而明帝国对郑和使命的最终否定, 为这个悲剧画上句号.
郑和之后, 以明帝国为首的东亚儒家文化圈普遍实行了锁国政策, 基本上摧毁了几个世纪以来积聚的世界领先的航海实力.
because no one says Z He actually got there!
While I don't disagree with this assertion, Zhou Man and Gavin Menezes are still in the category "Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact" and it's very inconsistent to place those two there and this not. Either put them all in or take them all out. --ColourBurst 21:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
New section "Zheng He's missions (from his Islamic viewpoint)"
Are there any sources for the information in this section? And can we rename that and the preceeding section? --- Hong Qi Gong 15:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
What are the sources for the following paragraph?
Zheng He realized he could not convert the Ming imperial court to Islam; therefore, on his seven voyages, he successfully relocated large numbers of Chinese Muslims to Malacca, Palembang, Surabaya and other places and converted the natives to Islam. Malacca became the center of Islamic learning and also a large international Islamic trade center of the southern seas. Zheng He, in fact, successfully achieved what he wanted, but not for Ming China.
According to Dreyer (2006) nothing in the records reveals anything about Zheng He's personality. It would seem very speculative to talk about Zheng He's motives of spreading Islam. It is not even certain that he was a Muslim. He was born a Muslim and his father and grandfather were Muslims. However he was taken into the imperial court from age 10. The inscriptions that he has left suggest he held Buddhist beliefs. ---Cowrider 00:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
year of death?
The intro paragraph states Zheng He's lifespan was "(1371–1433)", but in later paragraphs his year of death is stated as 1434:
"...Zheng He had already successfully established the foundations of the Hui religion Islam. After his death in 1434..."
"...In Malaysia today, many people believe it was admiral Zheng He (died 1434)..."
To make things even more confusing, he is listed under the "Deaths" section of the 1435 wiki, and this source [1] also states his death as 1435.
So which year is correct? Rodan44 05:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
According to Dreyer (2006) there is no direct record of Zheng He's death. Zheng He disappears from the historical record after 1433. He probably died in 1433, during or shortly after his last voyage. Xu Yuhu argues that he died in 1435, using indirect evidence. Zheng He served as commandant of Nanjing and as eunuch Grand Director of Ceremonial. Both of these posts received new appointments in 1435. Xu Yuhu believes this is because these posts became vacant when Zheng He died. Dreyer argues that Zheng He was probably already dead by 1435, a more likely reason for the new appointments was that the new emperor, Zhu Qizhen, came to power in that year. Cowrider 04:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Cultural depictions of Zheng He
I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 18:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Rebecca?
what does it mean, "he sailed the Rebecca"? it's said twice, for Zheng He and Menzies. I do not understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Voidvector (talk • contribs) 17:47, 1 November 2006
- it was vandalism. --Voidvector 22:47, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Contradiction
Two sections slightly contradict themselves, and very clearly repeat themselves. -- unsigned comment by anonymous user at 217.235.229.17 on 08:12, 5 November 2006
Treasure ships
The comparison pic
That dinosaur vs. mammal pic does not reflect accurately the true proportions of the respective ships, even if we ignore for a moment that the size of Zheng He's treasure ships is largely speculation anyway. See For example, the Jan Adkins 1993 illustration below shows a mast comparable to the world record carbon fiber mast of Mirabella V, built in 2004. As it is wrong (it appeared in a veritable Sinocentric pamphlet) I take it out. Gun Powder Ma 23:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Size of the ships
The article treats the sizes as given facts and does not reflect at all the fact that all these numbers are pure specultion. In fact, by any measure we have, the size of the ships, particularly of the Treasures ships, must be blown out of proportion. See Largest wooden ships. Gun Powder Ma 00:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Bring back picture comparing Treasure ships with Santa Maria
Someone deleted the picture that compared the size of the treasure ship with later ships of Columbus. Bring it back please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IntranetUSA (talk • contribs) at 22:32, 20 January 2007

